Growth and pollution on Steem

in thoughts •  6 months ago 

The downvotes have been raining down and when I click through to Trending on, it was looking pretty good: development updates, some application announcements, art, witness posts, the $300,000 dollars that has gone toward Venezuela in about 1.5 years and, a few announcements of the upcoming SteemFest. And, the number one position has only 120 dollars on it. I say "only" because Trending has been dominated by much more than that in the last few years.

There are some notable names missing from the Trending list though... the ones who have sat there for the last year botting their shit to the top where no one gave a shit about it. Anyone miss them?

But, this is just the start.

The goal has to be to normalize the negotiation of Steem rewards so that more goes into the hands of those who are looking to stabilize the chain so that development can take place. What that means is, people who will power up more than they will sell.

Stake moves Steem from the pool to content, and stake moves Steem away from content to the pool for redistribution. It is the responsibility of the entire staked community to put that Steem in the hands of the people who are going to use it to ensure the Steem Blockchain not only runs, but develops further so that all of the layers built upon it that houses and support all the users, can operate smoothly without having to worry about losing the infrastructure they have built on. Doing this as a decentralized group has its challenges, but I believe the future benefits outweigh the current cons.

When it comes to the situation of the now on #newsteem, the flow of Steem negotiation which has been lopsided for a very long time finally got a bit of support for the away from content mechanism and, it is being used to remind users that this is a community with a somewhat working economy that is stake based. There has to be incentive to build, there also has to be disincentive to not pollute, or incentive to clean up and decommission those who are causing pollution.

This is not a short process on Steem and that is why redirection has to be quite habitual, not a token gesture from time to time and, hopefully it gets to the point that it is hard to find in the ecosystem. The goal can't be to continually clean up the mess, the goal has to be be to reduce the mess that is being made toward zero.

Essentially there are two forces that we should be aiming for, maximum growth, zero pollution. These two things play against each other in a way that is somewhat opposite to what the industrial revolution did - profit at any cost. This meant maximum growth was enabled by the fact that it didn't matter how much shit was dumped into the environment, money would be made. Now, we have to clean all that shit up. Cleaning shit up is a waste of time and money that could go on building stuff, if the shit wasn't there.

You know, it isn't hard to do a little bit of mental arithmetic and imagine what could be done with all of the resources that currently go into stupid human shit, like cleaning up our own filth, war and paying it all to the narrow slice of middlemen who keep the flow of shit coming downstream, where most of us live.

While some people think that downvoting is some kind of horrendous digital war crime, what they are essentially saying is, "let them grow even if they pollute", because that has worked out well for humanity so far. A small polluter can become large, many small make a mass of pollution.

18 billion cigarettes are smoked per day, that is a crap load of butts thrown out - 6.5 trillion a year. Imagine that pile, the smoke created and then, all the resources needed to treat associated illness.

While everyone wants mass onboarding onto Steem for the growth and earnings aspect, there is far too much bullshit to deal with to have that happen effectively. However, with a solid infrastructure, the layers above Steem can offer compelling experience to the userbase and the shit can be kept out of sight in the sewers, where it belongs. Most people don't want to get involved in the infrastructure, they just want to come here and post, have some fun and earn a of tokens. However, this doesn't scale on Steem alone, it needs the ecosystem to grow and that only happens when there is enough stability to build upon.

The world is changing and we have an opportunity to be part of building what is to come. The problem is that too many are following in the path of what has proven a failure time and again.

Growth at any cost.

That mindset needs to be driven out of Steem and the entirety of humanity because, it is unsustainable and, the cost we will incur is the loss of a better future.

[ a Steem original ]

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Great post as always, I fully agree. We do need to rid the platform of those who pollute.

I am still figuring out exactly the finer points of the #newsteem but will certainly contribute in whatever way I can to clean up and help make @steem thrive and grow to it's full potential.

How ever small my input and contribution may be, I will make a concerted effort to do my part.

Ps. I have not used downvote as yet. I somehow feel terrible doing so, even though I fully understand the need for it. Will process and use it wisely.

The downvoting feels weird at first because there is a taboo around it, but that isn't the way it should be here in my opinion. If the system incentivized redirection from the start, it wouldn't be uncomfortable at all.

True. Just wondered what your general overview of the new system is. I have read quite a few different opinions and the rhetoric seems mostly despondent. I am trying to remain positive but finding it difficult. Do you think my brighter side view is misplaced . And do you genuinely think @steemit made the right move. As I have invested relatively heavily into the platform I, of late, feel nervous when I read various posts across the platform. Or should I not be concerned and just continue soldiering on. In your opinion. I realise you may have already posted about this.

Ps. I also cant help but want to load up even more at these prices it is a great opportunity to increase steem position😬

I think that over the next few weeks/months and if people continue using their downvotes, the new balance will make the experience more enjoyable for nearly all users. This will then spread out into the tribe/community frontends and applications and make the atmosphere more compelling. It takes cleaning up the nonsense first though, not ignoring and stepping over it.

I also cant help but want to load up even more at these prices it is a great opportunity to increase steem position

Doesn't this tell something? :D

Thank you for response. Appreciate it. My mind somewhat at ease. So much so I got some more sale steem, not that I can afford to. Just cant resist these prices. Lol. Have a great week. Steeming on😬

Posted using Partiko Android

Just had a thought(not original), what about setting up a referral system and also showing your referral count publicly and then some small reward for reaching certain milestones in your referral system. that may encourage people to take the initiative to actively assist other to get onboard?

Granted this is not new and certainly not an original thought, but i think it definitely encourages people to get more involved and will grow the platform through incentives? Why is @steemit not doing this? it should have been part of the recent changes.


Posted using Partiko iOS

As of now many steemians are running steem as if no hardfork has happened. Let's wait for another week to see dust settle. New members with no stake are going to struggle.

New members with no stake are going to struggle.

To earn? Not really, they just have to use the applications like tribes - which is the goal.

To view or trade BEER go to

Hey @tarazkp, here is your BEER token. Enjoy it!

Do you already know our BEER Crowdfunding

I downvoted for the first time since HF21 yesterday using a couple of votes to target obvious pool rapers...Felt a little weird but I warmed up pretty quick. I read something today on Asher's post about it and saw a comment from someone who is afraid to downvote for fear of reprisals...Interesting how bully tactics work on a person...Even just the threat, or perceived threat of it.

Can we stop using the word rapers please. Rape is sexual violence, usually against women. This is anti-social behaviour.

lol, idiot sjw detected.

Heh, thank you 😊

  ·  6 months ago (edited)

The use of the word rape in reference to something other than of a sexual nature is legitimate. Rape also means to damage or destroy something by using it in an unsuitable way as described in the link above. This is not anti-social behaviour although it is your prerogative to see it that way.

You are correct in the use of the word as you describe, however it also means other things and used in the correct context is legitimate use of the english language.

Rape is also a plant which is where canola oil is derived.

It is your right to take the line that it is only reserved to the use you put it however it is clearly a word with multiple meanings and uses like many in the english language.

Calling my usage of the word in relation to the reward pool anti-social is simply untrue and as I do not refer to it in a sexual manner its use it warranted, on my blog or in comments. Of course, your perception will be your reality.

Thanks for your comment.

I was talking about the behaviour you were referring to as anti-social.

Yes, it's despicable isn't it? Brings the whole platform down. Still, the recent HF may have an effect.

My apology for misconstruing your comment initially. I read that part of it differently that intended, obviously.

I have to agree with @galenkp on this one as the first time I ever heard the word was in relation to the mining of resources in Papua New Guinea, well before I knew what it meant in other contexts.

I tihnk that for the most part, the reprisals on legit DVs will be minimal and if it is on the Trending content, almost no existent due to the volume of DVs. "revenge" on the small downvoters will be useless when large downvoters continue unabated.

I went to the Adelaide steem meetup tonight...Some interesting perspectives there. Will chat about it on the weekend.


"Cleaning shit up is a waste of time and money that could go on building stuff, if the shit wasn't there."

I still have my reservations on hoping that downvoting is the panacea.... but willing to see how it pans out.

What I would like to see is people adding feedback (a comment) to a post to explain specifically the reason they are downvoting.

I hope it is that way too and eventually it won't be required much at all.

I will leave a comment perhaps if I am the first to downvote, but I don't think a stream of them from every downvoter is useful.

Epic :)

I have yet to cast my first down vote, I don't spend to much time trolling the trending page so I have yet to see a post that I think deserves my wrath.

Maybe I should take the NIke's slogan approach and "Just do it". I don't want to be malicious about it but am feeling a sense of duty to my Steem community to help with the "maximum growth, zero pollution" battle cry.

Start with stuff that has already been downvoted heavily as it will help you see what is going on.

You hit it there with the at any cost thing. It has been my problem since early childhood when I got interested in environmental issues. Only, then things were too black/white for me so for a long time after I thought of only Nature as important environment. And the English use of the term environment is much more vast than my native one, and rightfully so. (A funny example of Speech Maketh Thought.)

As grown-ups, we should be wise enough to know each environment matters and sustainability is a must. The thing is, as a global society we are in our infancy.

I believe that there are many intertwining processes that affect us and once we start to treat one aspect in one domain, it will begin to affect in others. Crap in the river, it will flow downstream to the sea and this is the same with all aspects of our existence. It is all interconnected, yet dues to the vastness and complexity, we tend to focus on our immediate surrounds with blinders on.

Yeah, part of this is because people want to see immediate effect of their actions. But it's a complex thing and they can't track their actions properly, so...**** all. A lack of education in that area, I think.

While some people think that downvoting is some kind of horrendous digital war crime, what they are essentially saying is, "let them grow even if they pollute", because that has worked out well for humanity so far. A small polluter can become large, many small make a mass of pollution.

Interesting and probably good analogy O_O

I am a visual person and enjoy examples that illustrate a framework and concept to me. I try to create many so that I can look at it form different angles. It is useful for me at least :D

I find it a sad inditement of people's selfish attitudes that they only downvote now because it has no negative impact on themselves to do so by loss of VP or RC.

Two free downvotes a day and everyone is using them which is a good thing but the fact that no one would try and clean the place up at their own expense sticks in the throat a little.

It needed cleaning before and if it had been, there wouldn't be such a huge mess today.

You are right but it is a problem of is not everyone does it, the ones who do will get picked off and pay the costs, while the others sit back for benefit. this is what happened in the "caveTroll" flags.

Now, it has more of the, they can't shoot us all kind of feel. If the process was even keeled from the start, the taboo would never have formed.

Better late than never and, there is further to go imo.

There is and that is a measured response. The safety in numbers aspect appears to be very important to many.
The outcome will be the same. Cleaner trending and linked to the fact the bots are no longer profitable, trending might be worth looking at for the first time in my memory at least!

We will see what happens when people start getting retaliatory flags. Perhaps it won't be as much fun then!

Never a dull day on Steem ;-)

The safety in numbers aspect appears to be very important to many.

I think later there will be services to proxy the DVs.

We will see what happens when people start getting retaliatory flags. Perhaps it won't be as much fun then!

There have been some already but most of the people getting flagged at this point have very little skin in the game.

Steem platform(s) and DApps gets better and more prepared for mass adoption everyday. It’s time we get out and promote in the real world (more) and onboard.

“Growth at any cost.” ✊🏽🦁


Posted using Partiko iOS

I think you might have missed the point a little.


Lol, splendid!

Zero pollution is a great goal and while a bunch of people are now using their downvotes to help reduce some of it. I still have serious reservations about how this all plays out. It's not the part of the HF that bothered me, but I do see some of the known bullies to use this to increase their bad behavior. They already were willing to cripple people when they had a financial reason not to, now they have free votes to be a bully with. Hope I'm wrong...but past actions are a great indicator of future actions so probably not.

The concerns people have with bullying I think don't change things much because, those accounts would do what they do, free downvotes or not.

Yes they do whatever they want even with financial costs to themselves. Add on some extra free downvotes and considering the size of these accounts that is a lot of extra damage that can be done over the course of a week or month.